The Monday Morning Marketing podcast is brought to you byEsther of IPA group, bringing premiere online promotion to your business.
And Melanie of Stump Social Media training, who empowers business owners to manage social media and marketing for themselves.
Hey, guys, and welcome back to the podcast. We're going to have a slightly different format today, aside from the fact that you don't normally hear me starting it. We're going to be doing a chat about adversity and how we can manage to push back against any problems that we experience through our business. Now, this is a topic that has been rarely discussedbecause it's a little confronting. But everybody goes through adversity at some stage. Everybody has problems with their health, with their business, withcoworkers. It's how we manage those problems that define how we manage our business and ourselves publicly. But it's not always what happens on theoutside that matters, it's how you cope with it internally. Today we're goingto be doing a little bit of an interview between myself and Esther because we've both been in business for a number of years and I'm sure we can bringsome insights that you might find useful. Let's face it, we've both been through it, haven't we, Esther?
We definitely have.
First of all, I'm going to ask you a few questions, Esther.I suppose the most obvious bit of adversity that you've been through is in thelast couple of years. Tell us, Esther, what have you been going through?
At the very end of 2021, I was diagnosed with non Hodgkinslymphoma, a cancer of the blood, and it was tumours sitting on my chest andheart. So started 2022, straight after Christmas, straight after the New Yearholidays, I was straight into hospital and I stayed in hospital to get mytreatment. It wasn't a treatment that I could get for a few hours on a day andgo back home again that afternoon. So I was in hospital for 7 to 10 days at atime, not seeing my family, not seeing anybody but the nurses. And even then itwas just their eyes because of all the PPE that they had to wear. So yeah, itwas a very lonely time. I tried to keep working through some of it, but let'sface it, when you're going through something as severe as cancer, it is hard tokeep your mind off it. And then the neuropathy set in, which is where yourfingers start tingling and it's really painful to type. So that's when I reallygave up even trying to do any semblance of work. I'm sure what I did beforethat was not up to standard anyway, just with what was going on in my head andin my body.
There was also the other side effects of what's referred toas chemo brain as well. Just the general exhaustion, and I remember youbattling a little bit of depression as well.
Oh, yeah. When you don't see anybody, it's really tough.Your only companion is the TV, which let's face it, day time TV here in the UK.
Is rubbish. Shocking everywhere. Y.
Our brain has a lot of time to think and it's just not goodtime to think. So yeah, definitely my mental health took a real battering aswell with it. Then in the middle of my treatment, so I was getting six roundsafter the third one, I took COVID, which you've taken as well, but I ended upin hospital with it. Not on a ventilator, thankfully, but just because of hightemperatures, they wanted to be sure that it didn't take over the rest of mybody.
But it just so happened at that time, you had a bit of nose.
Yes, I did. So I'd gone for a halfway PET scan, which iswhere they scan your body for cancer, and I got the news that I was officiallyin remission. I still had to do... I think this was probably the worst partthen, because I still had to do the other three rounds of chemo, knowing that Ididn't have any cancer left in me. And that was probably the worst part becauseit was just, but why? Why do I have to keep getting this in my body? Why do Ihave to keep going into hospital? Why can't I just stop now and be done withit? But yeah, the doctors assured me that another three and I would be in abetter position to definitely say that it wouldn't be coming back because it'sone thing for it to be gone at that point, but then there's always a chancethat cancer can come back.
And it didn't even end then, did it? Because then you had tospend many, many months in isolation afterwards and then there was aches andpains in your joints and other...
Yeah, there still are.
So did the neuropathy go away in the end?
It did because when I went back in for round four, I toldthem that I felt like Bambi. My legs were completely wobbly and I'd actuallyfallen at one point in the house. So they did other tests. They sent me for anMRI. They did a lovely lumber puncture on my spine. So they determined that itwas one of the drugs in the mix that was affecting it. And because of thepositive outcome, or is it a negative outcome from the PET scan, they were ableto take that drug out and then neuropathy cleared up after a few months of notgetting that. So again, if I had to go keep going with that drug, I might stillhave the neuropathy pains and no feeling in your finger. It's pins and needlesconstantly and it's horrible. I had those, I have aches and pains. Somethinghappened with my knee. They're not sure yet to this day what it is. To thisday, it's been six months since I ended treatment. But the pain in my knee,they think it might be from the steroids that I had to be on. I lost a lot ofweight because you couldn't eat properly.
The food tasted funny, even water tasted horrendous. It'sjust one of those things that you don't really appreciate what people gothrough until you have to go through it. But I was really lucky in that I had ateam behind me, not just my family and friends that were looking out for me,but I had my team that works with me here at IPA group. I had people likeMelanie, other friends, people from communities that I'm in that automaticallystepped forward and said, Whatever you need, if you need me to help you withthat client, with another client, with this work, the other work, I'm there foryou. I think that's what helped me get through it and keep me going as well.Knowing that I would have a business to come back to at the end because itdidn't stop. The clients were really understanding as well. They weren'tpushing me to, I need this done, I need that done, where is that? They reallyunderstood when I totally forgot about meetings. I had a few meetings withclients while in the hospital and one of them didn't know until I turned on thecamera.
She's like, Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. No, no, no. Yourest. You go rest. This can wait. People are nice whenever you explain to themwhat you're going through. I think whenever we internalise everything and wedon't speak out and we don't say what's going on, then they don't have anoption or an opportunity to step forward and say, Hey, don't you worry, I'llcome back whenever you're better, or I'll check in with you in a couple ofmonths' time. You might not have the client work there at the time, but it'llcome back.
From this time of adversity, you found out who was reallythere for you. As you say, you are quite lucky in that you have an experiencedteam of people here in the UK and obviously over in the States as well. Did youthink for a second that your business would be majorly impacted by this? Wasthere a part of you that was nag away going, This could end up destroying mybusiness. Or did you think there was a chance that it would carry on as normal?
Everything goes through your head at the one time. I'm luckyenough that I live in the UK and the government looks after us. So even thoughI'm self employed, I could apply for state help and help with paying the billsand help with money coming in from the government each year or each monthbecause I've been paying into the system for so long and because they liketheir citizens most of the time. Don't quote me on that later on down the linewhen there's other things going wrong with the government here. But in thatcase, I was able to apply for a lot of things. One of the places that reallyhelped me was Macmillan.
Macmillan Nurses.
They're fabulous. I could phone this guy up day or night andhe would just be like, Right, okay, and talk me through everything. If you'rein the UK or even Ireland, you see the ads for it. Whatever you're goingthrough, they're there to listen to you, to help you. How do I pay the nextbill? They help you with all that. They tell you what you are entitled to. Itsounds really bad, but you are entitled to help. No matter who you are, whatyou do here in the UK, you're entitled... The government will step up. So Iknew in a way that that helped me because my doctor said, You do not work for ayear. You take the full year and you do not work, he said. Because I was like,No, I'll keep going. I'll be all right. And he was right because, like yousaid, chemo brain, it's just brain fog. It's horrendous. It's just you don'tknow what day, time, anything it is, especially when you're staring at the samefour walls of a hospital room the whole time. You have the pain of theneuropathy, you have the pain of a constant drip in your arm.
There was always something attached to me and they wouldtest me for COVID every morning at five o'clock, so you'd never have the properamount of sleep either that you'd need to function. Just knowing that thegovernment money was there and that it might not have covered everything, butthe rest of the team was keeping the business going and they were able to, youknow, maybe not secure new clients, but the ones that were already there had,you know, we hadn't been going long enough as well to be able to keep themomentum going. And yet my team stepped up and took over a lot of the work thatI would be doing. And and they just really showed their true colours duringthat time.
Your way of coping was gaining a little bit of perspectiveon what was going on around you. You were able to and you were very fortunateto have that team around you. You had them with million nurses helping you withresources and explaining to your audience. I believe you did a couple of postsand an email newsletter just letting people know that this is where we're at,this is how you can contact such and such an email. It was very much putting inplace an expectation of how it was going to work from here so that people hadthe answers. You were ahead of the game, letting people know where to find theanswers because you'd already got yours.
Yes, definitely. There's no point in trying to struggle onwhen you're not in the right head space and you're not in the right physicalspace because if you have the physical pain or mental pain, you can't serveyour clients and your customers the way that you would want to, which thencould negatively impact their response later down the line. People think, Ihave to be strong. I have to keep going. I have to. I have to. I have to. Andeven at home, I've got a husband, two small boys. They stepped up. My kids nowdo a lot more around the house because mommy couldn't, with the knee, mommycan't still do a lot of stuff. So setting those foundations as well in place sothat they'll be better human beings when they're older and better spouses totheir future wives. So, you know, it sounds really cliché, but it all happensfor a reason and it all comes back into place. Now, yeah, I had crises when Iwas in the hospital. Oh, I don't want to do this anymore. I'm going to havesomething else. I'll leave IPA group for my husband to run and I'll go andstart something else, or I'll go back to work, or I'll go and find somethingelse because this just doesn't fit well with me anymore, whatever.
But it's those crises that get you through as well. Andyou're like, no, actually, whenever I could calm down and see it from adifferent perspective and coming out the other end in remission, then you'regoing, No, I do really enjoy what I was doing and I can't give it up becauselife's too short and you have to do what you love and you have to love what youdo. And if you get paid for it as well, then that's a bonus. And thankfully,even with recording the podcast, it kept me that wee bit stinger as well. All Ihad to do was press a record button and talk. So we were far enough aheadbefore I got sick that I could see how, when I was going to feel okay torecord. Melanie was able to do a couple of episodes on her own with guests. Youmake these things work because at the end of the day, you want them to. If youdidn't want them to work, then they just wouldn't. But I think definitelytelling people what you're going through, and it doesn't have to be as severeas cancer, but telling them what you're going through.
I'm going through like, I'm sick, I'm off with COVID, I'mjust not feeling myself. I'm going through the change. I've had a death in thefamily telling people, people are human and they will have a human reaction toyour human reactions. They don't expect you to be on 24 7. They don't expectyou to always be, you know, the strong one unless you perceive yourself to bethat or you give out that vibe all the time. But if you are vulnerable and showyourself to be vulnerable, then they'll understand you more.
My turn, I guess. M y biggest and most recent bout ofadversity was when I lost my father last year. It wasn't entirely unexpected.He was poorly for a couple of weeks beforehand, but we didn't realise he wasthat poorly. When he passed, it was a huge shock. We knew he wasn't well, butwe didn't realise he was dying. It was massive, massive shock. I'm based in theRepublic of Ireland and my family are over in England, in the UK. I was so faraway and it was just the feeling of being utterly, utterly useless, leading upto him being hospitalised. Again, we didn't know how sick he was. He had afall, he hurt himself. It was just really, really traumatic and extremely fast.I spent not as long as poor Esther, of course, but I spent a month really justtravelling to the UK and back on a regular basis. Obviously, I didn't have theright mindset, the right frame of mind for work. I remember letting... BecauseI collaborate with a lot of people, very lucky in that respect. A ll the peopleI collaborated with, all the people I ran courses with, I let them know whathad happened.
They were massively sympathetic and just said, Look, I'mreally, really sorry. I just can't mentally function for a month. I'd need atleast a month. A lthough I don't have a team, I do have the most amazingvirtual assistant, Diana. If you're listening to this, and you better bebecause you're meant to listen to this podcast occasionally, you were justoutstanding. Best decision I ever made was to get Diana onto the team. She wasmassively helpful to both myself and Esther as well, because when Esther wentoff sick, Diana basically held up the podcast whilst I was busy and Esther wasoff sick. To this day, she's still doing all the social media management forus, so kudos to her. But then she stood up and managed to stomp for me. Thatmonth, she created content. She discussed it with me. She didn't just wake upone morning and just go, This is what we're going to do. It was just soreassuring to know that somebody was watching my back whilst I was watching mymum's. I think having that security, that blanket behind me, made everythingelse so much more manageable because you can't just take your foot off thepedal.
You can't. And like yourself, I only told a very smallamount of people at the time because it was just too much. I didn't want to bedealing with people's questions. My mental health just spiralled because it wasso unexpected and so quick. If it weren't for the fact that I had you, Esther,and Lucy Hall, and Marie Manning, and Diana, of course, and a few other people,Hannah McDonnell, I honestly don't think I would have managed because I wastrying to manage my family. Like yourself, I've got two kids and a husbandrunning my business, clients, collaborators, the podcast. It was the whole teambeing there and supporting me, but it was only because I was able to tell them.Yeah. Myself and Esther, neither of us went massively public about either ofthese things at the time. We just weren't in the mental health space for it.The only reason why we're exposing ourselves now isn't to get, Oh, where isyou? Sorry to hear all that. That's not why we're doing this. The reason whywe're doing this is there is a way of coping and managing, but only if you tellthe truth, only if you open up and trust a little.
You don't have to go public with it, though.
No, you don't.
You just have to tell the right choice people. Whateveryou're going through, if you're off sick, long term sick, or even if you'redealing with a short illness. When I had COVID for 10 days last year, a reallyrough year last year. Not quite as rough as others, but it was pretty rough. Iwas scheduled ahead, so I didn't need to worry about that. I had to move a fewclients. But if you just tell the truth...
Yeah, definitely. That's what it comes down to, just being alittle bit vulnerable with the right people can really restore your faith inhumanity as well, because they will step up and help. That's why we are sothankful to be part of a lot of online communities. Some of the people thatstepped up to offer to help, I've never met them in real life. And that's theamazing thing. It's one of the best things to come out of COVID lockdown is allthese online communities. And even beforehand, there was people on Twitter andFacebook that you would just have been chatting to because they're fellowbusiness owners and they get it. They know what's happening. They know whatneeds to happen. And thankfully, when I got sick, I'd already done the taxreturn for that year. Otherwise, that would have been another stress. How doyou get around that one? But like I said, all things happened for a reason andI had put it in way early. Basically when the window closed, I had put in thetax return and then hadn't remembered until this time doing it that I was like,Oh yeah, I didn't have to worry about that.
It was because I would have totally forgotten about itanyway. But you just have to be that little bit vulnerable, reach out to thepeople that you trust and that... Especially if they're in the same space asyou and they can, and probably will, step up and help you because they knowthat you'll do the same for them.
Yeah, absolutely. A bit of a sensitive topic today. It's notreally about marketing per se, but it is about looking after yourself and yourbusiness. We hope that whatever you're going through, you can reach out to thepeople around you. And heck, you can reach out to myself and Esther. We bothhave very large networks. We're bound to know somebody in your country that canhelp in one way or another. Please don't be afraid to be vulnerable, to beready to accept help, because that's the tough one as well. Because everybodyout there, honestly, is more rooting for you than against you, more than yourealise. Definitely. That's us. We're all going to be all back to being theusual bonkers marketers next week. But we just wanted you to have some time foryourselves, just this episode. And we'll be back next week with more MondayMorning Marketing.
Until then, bye bye. Bye.