Good morning and welcome to the Monday morning marketing podcast. I'm Esther
and I'm Melanie.
And today we're talking about the what and how to do public sector marketing with author and podcaster Joanne Sweeney from the Public Sector Marketing Institute. Welcome, Joanne.
Thank you so much for having me, ladies. A real honour.
Thank you for being here.
That's quite a title, isn't it?
Well, it is, yeah. Well, when you're self-employed, you can create your own titles, right?
I love it. So let's start public sector. What does that entail?
So, yeah. Public sector marketing is really making sure that the work and the voice and the advocacy that government and public sector do is mainstreamed online. So it really is a niche market for me. I used to be a broadcast journalist. I study politics so you can imagine that hard news and the work of government and all of the facets of public sector was kind of central to my background. And even though I have for many years worked in private sector and working with businesses and I absolutely loved it, I knew that I wanted to really scale my business. And as you ladies quite rightly know, when you want to scale up online, you've got to niche down. And so I decided to niche down but then it took me about a year to figure out what would my niche be. And at the time, I had been working with the private sector and public sector. And given that both of my master's degrees, the first one in journalism and the second one in digital marketing, actually focussed on policing, which I believe both of them, and digital marketing and from a journalistic point of view, I then thought, well, you know what? That really is my specialism. I love it. I love pizza, handbags and shoes. I would love to market them. And I always found that I was drawn to that hard news that goes back to my original love, which was broadcasting and journalism. And I think that the public sector need me. And I also think it's a niche that's not crowded. So it gives my business an opportunity to flourish in that space.
That's actually one of the things I wanted to cover with you because I read your book, one of them anyway, the first one and the information in that was really pertinent to your background because of the policing background that you have, now tell me, tell the listeners about your policing background.
Yes. So I've never been a police officer or I've never been in uniform. But when I worked as a journalist in Highland Radio in Donegal and I was a young journalist actually it's 20 years ago this month that I graduated and I stepped out into my first job. And the Morris tribunal broke about a year into that career. And the Morris tribunal was a public enquiry into allegations of wrongdoing against some members of Bangladesh and County Donegal. That is the official tagline of that. And I still remember it word for word, because you have to be so careful. Nuance, language and being a hundred percent accurate was really important to covering that tribunal. And so as a court reporter for Highland's Radio, I wanted to cover the tribunal. It was the biggest story in the state. They came to Donegal for two months and they, here the main key witness statements there. And so I was the only journalist that stayed every single day. The national journalists would come for the big witnesses, I guess. And so that taught me a lot about like broadcasting being accurate. And I was doing some reporting then for the Nationals as well when they didn't have journalists. So I decided to do my masters on the impact of the Morris tribunal in County Donegal. And then fast forward 12, 13 years later. I was doing another master's degree, this time in digital marketing, and I wanted to study how and guard issue how to use social media for crime investigation, community engagement and public relations. And remember, the Digital Marketing Institute that I studied with said that sounds great, Joanne, but we don't think it's realistic. We don't think they will, they will work with you. And they did, they did so as the very first person to get insight and to understand how they use social media. And I got very excited about it. So after I did my Masters, I wrote my first book and so, social media under investigation, law enforcement on the social web was born a really long title CEO.
So a hell of a book that's a great read.
Yeah. And it's actually in policing libraries across the world and in universities because when I was doing my academic research and you gave you will appreciate that. I have to look for people to quote in my work. There was nobody because nobody had done it. And in that moment I went, oh, my goodness, nobody's talking about this on the Internet. So then I began to own the Internet and the same with public sector marketing. It's not a difficult space to own because not a lot of people are talking about it. And so that makes me excited from a digital marketing point of view.
So is it down to you then that the police and the guards are now being more personable on online and the like? We've seen them dancing, we've seen them taking up challenges. We've seen them, you know, being funny, being showing more of their, like, helpful community side rather than just releasing updates of there's been an accident, stay away from this area. Don't do this. Don't do that. You know, is it down to you or people like you that that has happened or has this come about because of the of the changes within social media themselves?
Well, I can't take any credit for the success of Benghazi O'Connor. And really, they said that they stepped into social media in 2011 when the queen of England came to Ireland. It was her first official state visit and it was an operational meet. And that's what you'll find in public sector. They will step into the world of social when it serves an operational goal because they're not like us in business. We want to be known. We want to shout about ourselves. They're very conservative and considered and rightly so. And what they knew strategically that if they were to build a massive audience and to build trust, which is the number one currency in the digital age public sector, they do it to what you just described as to assure the human side of them. And that's exactly their strategy. So humanising their people, showing that they're part of the fabric of society and adding and humour, that is their strategic approach.
So I was actually there at your inaugural Public and Public Marketing Summit, which was amazing. And you actually had to show kind of there they made an amazing presentation, I've got to say. And one thing I wanted to ask is. When this when you notice this large gap in the market, how did you feel that you could bring these people on board? Did you would you have Connexions with them through your journalism or were you able to fill in the language that they wanted to hear your message and because you've actually quite successful now? And also another question. When did you start doing the public marketing training?
There were two great questions, Melanie, and there's lots of lessons in my experience for your listeners. And so three years ago, I decided to go down the road of niching. And it's almost exactly three years ago to that inaugural public sector digital marketing, somebody you attended, uncovered. Thank you. And and I can tell you that I'm 13 years in business and the exponential growth in the past three years was far greater than the previous nine for the very reason of niching down and putting a laser sharp focus on one sector. And so how I did it is I knew it from being a journalist and working in PR and just knowing that sector. All my career, I knew that a couple of things would be very important for the number one, they need to trust you. You need to have massive authority in your space. My courses needed to be accredited and they were going to be very discerning on who they chose to work with, because when they choose to work with you, they're spending public money that is subject to freedom of information, that is subject to ridicule and to investigation for all of our taxpayers and for our good and the public interest. And so my strategy was education marketing at a really high level. And that's why the summit was born, because I felt if I can get these people into a room and showcase their peers on stage and say, here's what I'm doing for you and I'm shining a light on your work, but guess what? You need to elevate the standard of digital in your organisations that I thought I could trust the book for the very same reason to build trust the state of social media report that I that I do every year, which analyses over 500 government agencies across four social networks. It's an industry study, again, for the authority, the public sector marketing show, again, owning it. And also but I, I create these platforms in these events and these books. But what do I talk about? I talk about them all about their sector. And now they're realising that there's actually somebody and a company that will deliver digital marketing training that actually speaks to them. And you actually answered your own question in your question wasn't my language. Yes, because when I wrote the book, Facebook asked me to come and speak to their government politics and advocacy teams from across Europe and Middle East. And they unanimously said the language that you use in your book is very interesting. It's not the language we use Facebook. And I was like, no, it's not because you use commercial language and that's why you're finding it difficult to engage with the sector because you don't speak their language. And and so, you know, I've created language and nuance and frameworks and plans. It's all good digital marketing strategy. But I put the spin on the approach of the conversion being trust and public engagement. And so by me investing in that heavily and I now have a suite of products and as a consultant and trainer, then they trust. And so, yeah, language and authority content through education marketing has been the two strategic points, I'd say.
So so so far, we've talked about you working with the police and that aspect. What about politicians? Because your degree was in politics and how like, OK, so everybody knows a politician who has done things wrong on social media. There's many that can spring to mind, not just one or two. Can they come to you and hire you to sort of spin that or to help them or to run it for them? How how could politicians do it better?
Yes, I do. I do work with politicians for sure. And I worked with a politician who was brand new and got elected to the dole. And for the very first time, first time out and worked in the digital campaign, I worked with the biggest political grouping in the world currently. That's the EPP group in the European Parliament. They represent a hundred and eighty five MEPs in twenty seven countries. Only last week I had a workshop with a Romanian MEP and their team. And really what I do is I try and help them form a strategy, but also turn political, you know, seemingly on interesting information and to content that will engage the public. You know politicians have a number of different stakeholders online. They have the media who they can find. On Twitter. We talk about the Brussels bubble, for example. Only four percent of the Romanian population are on Twitter. They're not like the Irish. So Twitter in Romania, really, you're not the audience, but that MEP needs to be on Twitter in Brussels because that's the bubble of influence with and there. And so, yeah, talk about how you transform conversation into content that engage how you create a journey for a voter and how to turn maybe like into ultimately into votes. And again, it's digital marketing. But again, I created in a way that specifically is for politics. And again, I go back to trust. You need to show up. You need to be there. People need to see hear from you and you need to be able to take the questions. Do not just be a broadcaster. And we've seen even Minister Simon Harris, the Minister for Higher Education and Research here in Ireland. He's been on Instagram for quite a while with much success in terms of his video views. I only see his metrics from the outside and he's doing tik tok. And some journalists have had a go with him on mainstream media going, oh, he's trying to be an influencer. But guess what? You know, you have to be where your voters are, businesses have to be where there where their customers are. And you have to be relevant. And there are more people in the world using social media that are not on social media as mainstream.
Yeah, and these tips can be used across all sectors, like right now we're focussing more on the public sector because it's it's an area that is probably really difficult to get into because of the nuances and because of the of the the little details that you have to watch really, really carefully. But all of these tips of trust and authority and speaking their language, they can be used across all things. And, you know, you were talking there about making politics interesting. The same can be said about accountancy. The same can be said about a number of different areas. I'm not picking on any accountants. It's right, we love our accountants. But there are so many different areas that can learn from the same tips that it just doesn't have to be the one sector
For sure. Absolutely. And the secret is, is, you know, it's knowing your audience knows what makes them tick and then knows what makes the audience of your client tick as well.
So to the public sector, marketing teams are listening. Can I ask also, can you support and train and accredit people outside of Ireland as well? Because we do have an audience in the UK and in the States as well.
Yeah, absolutely. My courses are accredited in twenty two countries across the world. Latest students to join and take one of my courses you took the professional diploma in Social Media is from South Australia and that happened over the weekend while I was sleeping. She registered and she's now on module two. And so, yeah, the Internet has allowed me to scale and obviously pretty cool, but I've seen a lot of in-person training. Now my business is 100 hundred percent online. It will probably remain like that, will the majority of it. And so I've got public sector professionals right across the world.
Passive income as well.
Yeah.
So what about differences between the public sector here and in Ireland? In the UK, I mean, even within politics, it's so different between these two countries that are joined.
Yeah, for sure it is. But you know what? It's actually not that different. And so I was in Australia in November, December 2019 promoting my book, and I had the opportunity to deliver a series of masterclasses in Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne and collaboration with Public Sector Network who are based out there. And what I was teaching was so transferable. It's so transferable. And again, I'm very fortunate. Yes, I will understand the political parties out there, how it's governed, if it's state, if it's federal, if it's local, I'll I'll do my research. And I look at the social media in territories and states and countries, but it is all very, very transferable. And I think that, again, is I'm very lucky from that point of view. You have to do your research. You have to know the nuances of it. And it is transferable for sure.
So to the people who are listening here, what kind of outcomes can you give them when they're doing these types of courses?
So I'll answer that question by maybe talking about the students that have graduated from my courses and the impact they have had. So David works in national government. Obviously, I'm not going to disclose any particular information, but David works in national government, and they didn't have a social media strategy. So he joined the course to get one, because when you do the course, you have to do an assignment. And that assignment is a social media strategy for a campaign to introduce a new channel or for your organisation. So he created a social media strategy for his department, which then on graduation, he came back to me and said that it was sent up to the highest and part of the organisation, and they subsequently recruited two extra people on the back of it. We shall got a promotion on the back of and presenting her strategy to her line managers. And then we had a Ruth who introduced a new podcast and a new YouTube show and on the back of the course. So it's very tangible. It's results driven not by cash or sales, but by an immediate impact on the organisation, but also on the professional development of those that actually study because this is about career progression. So if you're ambitious or if you feel that you've been stuck in your career, this is going to make you stand out. And actually, the lady who just signed up from Australia and her email to me, she said, I'm a subcontractor to a public sector agency. I'd love to work with them full time. And I said, get this qualification. And I said, that will probably help you get the job. So, yeah, because for many years that is that government, public sector have outsourced social and digital and not realising that they need to insource their story. And then when came for a time when there was new job opportunities, private sector people were getting the jobs and those that had committed to public sector and public sector as a vocation. You know what I mean? I went for a job once in public sector. And in the interview, the guy said, Joanne, the problem is you probably know too much, get the job. But I still get to work for the public sector. But it's a real vocation for people who commit. They may not get the salary expectations of the private sector. And and so they were being overlooked for jobs. But now it's time for these people to be recognised for that commitment.
And what advice would you give to others who would like to get into the public sector.
Not just saying it because I want to, but take one, because this will differentiate you, there are not enough people who have the digital knowledge and skills and competencies that that sector needs. They are now also hiring for these roles. So there are huge gaps and COVID has fast forwarded their intention and their commitment to digital a million fold. Google say that we've gone through a decade of transformation digitally in 12 months. And so and also you're doing digital for public impact and for public goods. So the real meaning behind those jobs.
Actually, a decade in the year.
So where can people go to find your course?
So go to publicsectormarketingpros.com and even if you Google public sector marketing, I own a... well just Google, so you'll find me there.
And of course, we're going to be sharing your links anyway, so.
Yeah. And you were telling us before we started recording that you have an event coming up.
Yes. The Public Sector Digital Marketing Summit is going online for the first time. So this means that no matter where in the world you are, you can join. And I've already got speakers confirmed from California, from British Columbia, from Northern Ireland, from Ireland, from the UK. And I'm going it's a two day event. So go and check that out on the website as well.
Brilliant. Well, thank you very much for joining us today, Joanne. It has been an absolute pleasure, an eye opener for a lot of us as well. And it's just good to know that, you know, marketing is marketing no matter what sector you're in. Thanks for joining us, Joanne. And we'll be back next week with more Monday Morning Marketing. Bye
Bye for now.