Good morning. And welcome to the Monday Morning Marketing Podcast. I'm Esther
And I'm Melanie.
And today we're joined by Andrew and Pete of ATOMIC and we're talking about scaling up. Welcome, guys.
Whoop whoop! Thank you so much for having us guys and thank you everyone for listening as well.
So excited let's do this
Do you really say that in real life.
There's a time out radio voice going on potentially but yeah
We have to get our catchphrase in there somewhere.
Love a good catchphrase. So for those that don't know, Andrew and Pete fellas on, who are you? Where are you from? What do you do?
Oh ok, so the whole backstory? How far back should we go? Back to birth?
It's a short podcast, guys.
So, yes, we are Andrew, and we are a business partnership and we run the membership called ATOMIC. ATOMIC is for a small and mighty business. We believe that it's actually better to be a small business. You can have more freedom. You can make more money. You can actually have fun enjoying running your business. And we believe actually being small is better. Small is mighty. And that's kind of the whole ethos around ATOMIC and what it's all about.
Yeah. So it is today to help you guys listening, figure out how you can be more scalable in your business. Give you some tips and advice to help you get there fastest, keep you happier, make more money in less time.
Okay. So how have you managed to do it yourself? How long Andrew in been in ATOMIC?
Okay. That's a great question. So when we first started off, we started doing one to one services, so we started doing marketing advice and website design and things like this. We very, very quickly got burnt out with that. It was very limited to how much money we could make based on basically how many people we could serve. What we discovered is that that's not what we wanted our business to be. You want unlimited income possibilities. So we put our heads together and we basically came up with a membership model and the membership model is obviously scalable, so we can have one member or 100,000 members. Basically, the amount of work is pretty much the same. And we also have an event. An event is very scalable, and we've also got a few other income streams, like affiliates, advertising revenue and brand revenue, brand deals that are awesome.
In terms of, like, how long it's taken us as well. So our business actually turns ten this year.
Oh congrats!
Oh, thank you. Thank you. Yeah. We set up right out of University and 2011 it took us definitely a good few years to kind of find our feet. We were like, super green, super, inexperienced, 21 and like, in this big business world we really didn't know what we were doing to be honest. ATOMIC was launched in 2014. Yes, that is seven-ish years old now. Yeah, but yeah. Yeah. So I don't think I feel like the whole myth around becoming an overnight success is just that like, it's a myth. It has been a lot of hard work. It's been a lot of trail and error. It's been a lot of doing things wrong, but learning from those mistakes, I think just learning. I think one of probably the biggest realisations for us is that it is a journey and it is something that does take time. I think we realised at one point we needed to stop trying to get to a place and be happy once we got to that place and just be more happy with, like, the journey that we were on. Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. So you talked there about lessons learned. So what are some of the big major lessons that you have learned along the way?
Oh, my God
This is good. So basically, I think some of the biggest things with Len is that confidence is everything. So when we were doing one to one services, we were basically limited to how much money we could make based on our own self confidence, of how good we were and how much we are able to charge. What we see happen a lot of the time is small business owners, they want to make more money. They get burnt out by client work and they think that they need to launch something more scalable, that's how they can they grow the business so they'll dive right in and they'll launch a course or a membership or something like that for products even or book. And what they'll realise is that they don't have any time to promote it. They haven't had time to build up the their own audience. So when I launch a course like it doesn't sell because they've got no time and they've not have time to build up an audience which you can easily sell a course do if you had a bigger audience. I think the important thing to realise is that launching a course might be the answer depending on your situation. I'd say most of the time it is not the answer straight away. For most people, the answer is probably like if you want to make more money and work less right now, for most small business owners, especially service based businesses, you just need to charge more or outsource more.
So yes, it's like literally, if you think about it, scaling up like I feel like scaling is sometimes a confusing concept. Or when people hear scaling, they think like an app company or a tech company or something like that. Like to us, scaling is basically earning more money without having to work more hours. That's the aim, right? We want to use money, but we don't want to hustling our faces into the ground, like working every single hour of the day to make money. Right? So the question is, how do we do that? How do we create more income in our business without having to work more? Even better - how do we do it with working less and like that is literally one of the easiest ways to do it. If you raise your prices, you are literally going to be earning more money while doing the exact same amount of work.
For example, if you were to double your prices today, you could work half the amount and still make the same amount of money. In that time that you save back you could then start to either chill out a bit more. Or you could actually use that time to invest in growing your audience, create content and then you can launch more scalable products with much more success.
I'm not a massive fun to be honest of the, like, double your pricing kind of advice. I feel like that when you say that to some people that are like, oh, my God, I can't do that. Like raising your prices it's, just to be clear, it's simple in simple to get your head around how that can make you more money. It is not necessarily simple to do, like, emotionally or mentally. Like, there's a lot going on there to actually raise your price. Double your prices to some might be extremely scary. And you might just think, no way can you even do that. I think what you need to realise is that your prices should be going up because that is the world that we live in, like, prices for literally every single product or service mainly go up go up. So why do small businesses feel like they need to be charging the same that they were charging a year ago, two years ago, like, six months ago. And when we first got started, that is one of the first things we started doing. We adopted what we call an "always going up strategy". And every time we got someone to say yes to a price, we put the price up for the next person. And we would do a lot of logos and branding, like, back in the day when we first got started, and literally, our first logo was, I think, about £45 for a logo. And then we were like, okay, we sold one for 45. Right. Let's try it like 55.
If we wanted to make like, minimum wage we'd have had to have made like, 66 logos a week or something.
Wow.
But again, it comes back to confidence, you know? So it went from 45 to 90 and then to 100 and then eventually it got to 1000 and it just built up, naturally.
So it sounds like ultimately the biggest lesson you've learned. All of this can be achieved just with confidence.
Confidence is such a massive thing that not enough people talk about. And again, it's not like, again, that's simple in practise, like, more confidence, more money. Right? But it takes work. It takes a lot of work.
It impacts on everything. So, for example, if you want to make more money, you need to sell more. If you want to grow your audience so that you can have more sales easier, quicker, you need to put yourself out there. That's scary. Selling is scary. If you want to grow your business at some point, eventually, you will have to outsource, you'll have to lose some of that control. You will give away some of those tasks. That is scary. Ok. So raising your prices is scary, every single thing that's important in business is scary. And it's scary because you've never done it before. You've never had to do it before. No one's ever taught you. No one's ever shown you it. You've not watched other people do it on a day to day like, scenario. It's something you are on your journey with by yourself and you've never been told how to do it. So it's scary, it's unknown so it's inherently scary. And this is why you need, like, confidence. You need support, you need team moral, you need, inspiration, motivation, accountability, accountability, accountability.
A lot of the businesses we work with, you as well, I would imagine are sole traders. So the accountability is the one thing that they're missing.
It is absolutely true. Yeah. So, like, for example, in our membership, we actually run what we call raise the stakes sprints or Sprints for short. And essentially, we get people to tell us what they're putting off, and then we make a wager with those people to do the thing that they're putting off within a two week period. So they literally put money in and say, I'm going to do the tasks to achieve this thing that I'm putting off. It works with the hundreds and hundreds of people that we have done it with, we've never had anyone fail. Because the accountability works, especially if there's a fear of losing some money.
I feel like that is the thing, yeah? If you want accountability to work and you want the confidence to do stuff, you need to make the fear of not doing that thing worse than the fear of actually doing it in the first place.
I agree.
And that's what actually playing money down does. That's what working with maybe a coach does where you're like, telling somebody. Public accountability is often a great way to get it. Yeah. It's like fear. It's like fear of losing out. It's that fear of like being publicly shamed if you don't do something. It's the fear of, like letting someone down.
And I think when people are alone in the business, you know, you run a cycle and you might have these clients and you're busy and you've got no time to work on the business, you just kind of work in the business, doing client with then when it comes to that point where you've got a few hours to work on the business and, you know, you should be like building a sales funnel or creating content or being proactive with sales. You know, you should be doing those things. But if there's no accountability, then again, it's like, hey, you know what if I don't reach out and do a sale right now, what's going to happen tomorrow? Nothing. It'll be fine, right? It's going to be okay. And if people are comfortable like that, it's not good to always be comfortable if that makes sense. You know, it's a fine balance between being happy and content with where you're at and where you're going, but also not being happy with being comfortable, necessarily if it doesn't push you to grow faster, especially if that's what you want to do at this point in your journey. And most of the people we talk to want to grow faster.
I've got a question. There is obviously the two of you just like there is the two of us. So who would be the pusher one?
Feel like we both push each other in different ways.
I feel like we don't want to let each other down. That is very important. So if we give if one person is assigned a task, we would do the task because you don't want to let the other person down, fixing that the other person than the task that they were meant to do.
I feel like there's definitely been a lot of working out what each of our personalities and playing to our strengths. I'm probably the more impatient one.
I'm definitely the more let's think about this. It this the right decision? Maybe even questioning it a little while.
And I'm like we could have done this already, but we could talk about this some more if you want Pete.
So who would you be? Esther? Would you be Pete or would you be Andrew, I know which one you'd be. Would you be more patient or would you be more impatient?
I'll leave that to you to decide?
You're Pete, I'm Andrew I really am. No question.
So scaling up. Is it possible for every business to scale up whether they've got their arts and crafts business from their home or they've got a shop already selling some products. Is it possible for every single business to scale up?
Yes, definitely. Yes. If we're looking at scaling up as, like I said before, if we took the definition of not working more but making more money. Then yes, it's definitely possible for every business to scale up. First way is what we've talked about already. So that is I have raising your prices. Like we hundred cent get that there are some businesses where there will be a cap on raising your prices and it's not like you can charge millions and millions of millions. But there is other ways to do it. So, like, the second way is by realising that you don't have to do all the work yourself and building an outsource team that can do some of the work for you. And again, this comes down to confidence as well. So it's like we'll say that and some people will be like, yes, great, like, how do I do this? Some people will be like, oh, my God. No, I'm the only one that can do this in my business. And like, we have not met a business where that is actually true because there are so many ways that you can process and automate all the different parts of your business that it takes to run.
Yes. And the third way to scale is to launch some kind of scalable offering. So that is an event, it's a membership, it's a course, it's affiliate income, it's subscription boxes, subscription packages. Can't think of anything else.
That was quite enough
Thanks Melanie!
Calm down, Pete.
She's frantically writing a list. That's where I'm getting worried. She's writing the list and then she'll turn around and say so you need to this...
Any business can do one of those three things. And the reason the price thing as well. I think some people complain at us when we say that and start "I can't raise my prices. No one will possibly pay me more for that". People probably will. Also, if not like, is it worth doing something else is at worth coming up with a different offering which holds more value? Don't limit yourself to what you've already got. One of the biggest keys to success for any businesses like is your product or service like amazing like does it actually hold a real of value. Does it solve a real deep problem? You know what, like sometimes business owners got to question whether they are achieving that or not. So lots to think about there.
I didn't realise you could be so profound.
If you let me get on to it.
But I think going back to one of the steps, hiring other people, or outsourcing or collaborate or building the team around you. It's one of the things that definitely need to look at I think in every business because, and the last year and a half plus has taught us this as well. You know, if you're sick, but if you're not available, if you can't go and do it, then who else can you call on to do it? So if you're just holding on to the reins, I know this is my baby, this is my business. Nobody else can do it. Then you're going to miss out when I'm not even going to say if. But when things like that happen. When life happens and you're able to go and do it, then it could be worse than actually inviting other people into your business and sharing the joy
And the great thing about building an outsource team which aren't necessarily employees but they're like virtual freelancers, is that you can get specialists for specific roles, so you're not having to find somebody that can do a bunch of roles and be an employee on your business. You're just finding someone to do a very specific task that might take you a lot of time to do, maybe you don't enjoy doing it. Or maybe if you can do it better, you can charge more for it. And like, I think it's quite egotistical to think that you are the only person and you are the best person for that job compared to like, a specialist who only does that. I think that was a lesson that we learned. We thought like, we're the only ones that can, like, write copy, like in our voice or we're the only ones that can edit videos like we do. We're the only ones that can, like, keep track of all the different moving parts in ATOMIC. And as soon as we started working with specialist, we were like, oh, my God, no, that video editor is way better than us, that organiser is way better at planning the calender for ATOMIC coming up and making sure everything everything's happening than us and we were like, "Why were we doing this by outselves?"
I've got to agree. I took part in your event a couple of months ago and encouraged me to finally hand over the reins administratively to a VA. And it was the best decision I have made for my business. Absolutely the best decision, because now I'm doing this stuff I'm more profitable at, I enjoy more, and it saved me so much time.
Yeah, I don't think people understand, just at a very, very basic level. Like, for example, we were spending like, two to 4 hours a week editing our videos because it takes us ages. We're not like experts, we haven't got the best software in the world, so creating videos for our weekly YouTube show was taking us ages. Like I said two to four hours. The moment we outsource that to a professional, not only do we get a better retention and a better video, so we make more money and attract better people. We also save ourselves 4 hours a week, say 3 hours a week. And in that 3 hours, we can charge, like, 5 or 10 times more than what we paying the editor. So like we've just literally made X amount of money immediately or saved a bunch of time.
You know, what people do that people do it wrong because they outsource stuff and doesn't make them money. And like, what they do instead. And this is why people got burned with outsourcing is they outsource the stuff they feel like they need to be doing rather than the stuff that currently works for them. Like, for example, we were speaking to a member and she said, "I really need to outsource my social media. I absolutely hate Twitter. I'm just going outsource that." And we were like hang on, hold up, hold up like when was the last time you got business from Twitter and she was like, "I've never got business from Twitter. I absolutely hate doing it. All my business comes from Instagram. That's why I want outsource Twitter." And I can see why that person thought that but that just does not make sense, it's like, that is not the answer. The answer is stop doing Twitter. It's not working for you. Get someone to help you do what you're doing on Instagram, but like, ten times better. It's like if Instagram is working, like, invest in doing more of what you're currently doing.
I've taken a plumbers company off. There's a plumber's company about four or five years ago, who was doing five or six different social media platforms, and they were doing them all appallingly. And really, they were only getting revenue from Facebook at that time. And since then they've made Google My Business one of the busiest platforms for being found. And that was because I introduced him to Google My Business. And it's crazy, some people are just over working on the areas they don't need because I feel they should be doing it.
We are not pro you have to be everywhere.
Although you are
Well it's funny, if you check out Facebook page, our Pinterest. There isn't much going on here. Let's be honest. Or our Linkedin even it's just like not where we enjoy being. I feel like people do feel like we are everywhere, but we're really not. It's like we're very focused on the platforms we enjoy being on, and we create good content for those platforms. So people see it. Where if you're just creating average content for everywhere, even though you technically are everywhere, no one going to see that content and no one's going to feel like you are everywhere.
Average content or even good content doesn't cut it on social media. It's not good enough. The algorithms just put it down because there's so much better content out there which is the saturate of social media.
Exactly. And it's ever changing. So there's that. Well, guys, it's been great having you on. Where can we find you? What have you got coming up?
And we also want to hear about the success predictor as well.
Oh, oh, yes. So it's coming up. We've got so much coming up. We cannot wait to hang out with you two at ATOMICON which is happening November 9 and Newcastle Upon Tyne. So tickets are on sale now, guys. So if you wanna come to our epic conference it's headlined by Dragons Den star Deborah Meaden. We have got world class speakers from all over the world coming in. We cannot wait to get the band back together it has been far too long. So to atomiccon.co.uk to grab your ticket.
It's a conference for small business owners like yourselfs so it's going to be jawdroppingly epic. So there's that. Also, if you want to get a few tips on where is best to focus your time for the biggest impact right now. So I know there's a thousand things, especially after listening to a great podcasts like this one, you've often got a thousand things you think you should be doing right now. And in terms of spending less effort but having more impact, we actually have a success predictor assessment. You fill it in, it's a little quiz and it tells you where's best to focus your efforts right now to make the most amount of money in the shortest space of time.
So you can get that on our completely free plan of ATOMIC. So I go to Atomic.Site. You'll be able to sign up for the free plan of a ATOMIC there and then. That'll be one of the first things that you can do when you join. Completely free.
Brilliant. Well, that has been wonderful. And thank you for all the information. Yes, we have taken notes. Yes, we will be implementing some of these things, including the event.
I already have.
Anyone listening, if you want to reach out, ask more questions, we are always available.
Thanks again, guys. We'll be back next week with more Monday Morning Marketing until then, goodbye.
See you on Tuesday
See you on Tuesday?
What?
I can't believe you just said that
We were just really confused at the end there - what's happening on Tuesday?? You'll have to leave all of this in now!
We are, we're going to leave this all in.
Thanks for listening.
Bye!