Hello. And welcome to the Monday morning marketing podcast. My name is Melanie, and today I'm here on my own. Esther has abandoned me. Well, in fairness, she's actually working very, very hard. So today I have the true honour and pleasure to have Rachel Dines on the show. Rachel, welcome to the podcast.
Hello. Morning. Thank you for having me.
Absolutely great to have you one, especially as I saw you very recently as a Tomicon.
I know real life. What a pleasure.
I know for me personally, that was my first in person event. What did you think?
Wow. I've had a few, but I've never been to the summer come before. I've actually never been to Newcastle before and I had the best time. Really good time. Met loads of people, including yourself, had a good party too. So all the boxes were ticked.
Oh, totally. The reason why we brought you on today is your journey is really quite fascinating. And for me, as a sole trader for a start, and as you're probably aware, as an agency, it was quite interesting to hear your story, from being a freelancer to creating an agency. But first of all, let's understand exactly who you are and what you do. Rachel, do introduce yourself.
Okay. Yeah. I'm Rachel, and I live down by the sea in Wyarding on the Southeast Coast, and I run a company called Shake It Up Creative. We are a marketing and design company that specialises in working with usually with companies under five years old, all in the UK, and we like to do things like rejuvenate them. So what I mean by that is this is companies that are a few years old. They've been trying to do marketing by themselves. So I'm a child supporter, and that's what my specialism is. And they come to us because they're ready to either rebrand to have a strategy, to have external support, anything that really takes them out of that kind of make it up mode into a mode for them to get ready to grow.
Right. It's quite nice, actually, how you've kind of niched because you're quite specific with your audience there, aren't you? Tell us about where you started because you were a freelancer initially. How did you get into business in the first place?
Yeah, I'm an accidental entrepreneur. I never intended to have my own business. It was all just circumstantial. So I was working in Brighton at the time at a software company, and I was doing the marketing there in house. And unfortunately, the recession hit. So this is like 2008 2009, and they had to cut the marketing budget. And Bam, that was my job done because there was no money to spend and they didn't need a marketing person. So unfortunately, as lovely as they were as a company, I got made redundant. And what they didn't know at the time was, actually I was pregnant.
Oh, my gosh.
I was very early pregnant. So they had a bit of a shock, but they were amazing. I can't tell them they helped me be there as long as possible and qualify for the statutory maternity pay. And let me start my own thing, essentially whilst I was there in their office. So, yeah, it was amazing.
That was lucky. So how long have you been in business now, Rachel?
Shaken up, is six years old now. And once I started being freelance, I did that for about five years. And in all honesty, I just thought it was going to be this top cap. I didn't know that much about the freelancing world. I set myself up what I would call properly, and I tried to brand myself. I had a website, I went out networking, I got referrals, all of the things to get enough work to see me through. A year, a year and a half, maybe. And I absolutely loved it. And I was lucky. I got really good projects and I didn't look back.
So the jump itself from freelance to agency. Was it very heavy on the old time management or costing? Perhaps?
No, I was fortunate. I think when you're freelance and you want to move up to being an agency, you're already in that kind of homeworking managing your own schedule. You've got the regular income from your freelance clients. So you're not having to quit and walk out on a job. So that's a very fortunate position to be in. When I started the company, I actually started it because I met somebody who was a designer and developer very talented. And we decided that we had very similar goals. And so we actually made that jump into having an agency together. And we were co-founders together. Unfortunately, that didn't work out. And during lockdown she decided to leave and it ended really badly, which is really sad, because we did become friends, but yeah, now it's all mine.
I suppose in some ways because you had somebody to do this with. It took some of the perhaps tension and pressure out of it because you were doing it together. Do you think it's manageable to set up an agency from home and have outside people working for you virtually? Is that manageable or is it really better to have an in person agency?
Well, mine is virtual, so I would say, yes, I have a team. They are all running their own gigs. I subcontract them and they work for me. But they also do other projects because as a small agency, you're not guaranteed to have the same work happening all the time. We have a real mix of products, which is lovely, but that means that one week I might not need a shopify developer, for example, but I might do in a few months time. So it gives me the flexibility and oh, my goodness, through COVID. That absolutely saved me. So I'm very lucky. It's still that way. I think eventually one day I would really like to grow enough that I had the team basic team, at least in a permanent position. But right now that suits me. And it suits the clients just fine.
So you did the P word, didn't you? During the pandemic, you pivoted, didn't you?
Not really. No. I think it just gave me a bit of time. I had a lot going on because my business by the left and all the legalities and stress that came with that situation, it made me reevaluate. So I was looking at where I wanted to take the business. Could I do this alone? What did I need in place? What was I going to lose with her going? And what do I need to replace from that? Did I want to be in business with someone else? And God, no. After being burned right now, I don't. I would just say to anyone to cover all your bases because you just never think it's going to happen to you.
Partnership Agreements there are some standards that you can find online, but you can also create one yourself between the two of you. Who knows, you could have an argument. People could get a job offer elsewhere, or the partner could get a job offer elsewhere. And that makes it harder time zones and that sort of stuff. Any number of reasons, isn't there?
There's loads of reasons. And actually, I would rather if someone wasn't happy that they went off to do something that made them happy. I have no anger about that at all. For me, the difficulty came with how that person handled the break up, the situation and actions that she decided to take, which just weren't really what I would expect from her. But there's two sides to every story, and we're both moving on and doing our own great things.
I guess there was a lesson learnt here. Have you got any tips on how to help people set up this kind of partnership in the first place, securing their bases in the first place?
Well, what I would say is I felt like we had done that. We had a partnership agreement in place. We also had done things to make working life as fair as possible. We had different ways of working, but they were very complementary. She actually worked a lot more hours than me, and from the outset, she was paid for those hours. It wasn't just a 50 50 and then felt like someone wasn't pulling their weight. So I felt like we had done the right thing to go forward in the right way. But I think it's just tying up. My advice would be tying up any loose ends. We had this partnership agreement, but it hadn't been overseen legally and ultimately it was very easily broken. So I guess that's my lesson.
Well, I can completely understand why you wouldn't consider working with anybody else for the time being, but collaborations don't have to be permanent. They can be short term. A lot of people do, like three months ventures. We've got a similar audience. You can do a campaign together and make something work out of that.
I love that. I do have other agencies and other companies that collaborate on projects with me, and it's lovely. It's really nice. It's great for me to see how other people do things. It's also great to bring skill sets together where they perhaps have a gap and I have a gap and then they kind of puzzle come together and it leads to new connections. And it's great. I do like collaborating a lot.
Like I said, this is about the journey from freelance to agencies. We've discussed quite a bit of your freelance element here. So now that you've got this virtual agency, how are you managing, coordinating all of the team members and finalising projects and getting tasks sorted out as well? I wonder where I got projects and tasks from.
A conference reference now. Yeah. I mean, obviously there's tools that really help CRM and project tracking type stuff. I actually really like the project management side. Even though I'm not a trained project manager, I quite like overseeing things, and I am always the main point of contact for the client. So I'm doing that on a daily basis. So I think it's just I'm a very organised person. Naturally. I think that really helps me. I know it doesn't happen to everyone, but I am quite lucky, kind of juggling all of the home and the work stuff all of the time.
So Google calendar is my absolute friend and reminders, and I use Asana just altogether everything. I have to put something straight in my calendar as soon as it happens, because if I don't, then I'll get missed.
Who keeps you accountable? Rachel?
Good question. So at the moment, I don't have a mentor. I have worked with various people in the past. So at the moment, it's just little me that keep me accountable. And I think the way to do that is to make sure that you've got goals and ambitions. And actually, do you know what you've helped me out immensely because one of my goals with this year was to be on a podcast and now I'm.
Just eked it in.
Yeah, just in time.
Absolutely. And it's very much what you are aiming for, isn't it? I mean, did you actually see yourself setting up this agency when you started working from home for a year or two.
When I was sat in my small house and my laptop, my lap and the baby crawling around the floor. I definitely didn't see myself setting up an agency, but it's a few years into that and you realise that you're loving the variety of your work, you're loving the flexibility. And actually, I'm able to do things that people in a full time career often can't do, go to the school assemblies and go to the school fairs and be there and do those things. Being a parent, being a mom is really important to me. So to have that balance is incredibly incredible. And I'm just very lucky to have that. So I didn't. But in a few years in I thought I love this and I would love to grow it. And I did have that ambition. Then it came and I thought, I want to achieve great things.
It's just come to mind as you were discussing. Actually, that because you have virtual staff who you subcontract to. You don't have to worry about payrolls and paid holiday and that sort of stuff. So there are ways around making your agency more manageable and affordable, certainly at the beginning. And then when you're ready and you bring people in house, then it will be different. You'll have a proper payroll and that sort of stuff as well.
Yeah, definitely. And we had a payroll over the summer because she was lucky to have a graduate intern over the summer who was brilliant help. So yeah, we have that available when I need to set it up. But I just say that if you are thinking of working in this way, just make sure that you are doing all of the paperwork, you are contracting your subcontractors, you've got that agreement in place. You've also got minimum levels for whatever markup you need so that you're making money for the company and not just sending it all out to someone else's bank account all the time. There's got to be those business levels in place.
So I know you're based in the UK and our audience is around about. So where would you go to get information on what levels you need to look after people? Is there a ruling or a place where they can get information on how to set up a company that you would recommend?
Well, I mean, a lot of the free business support is very sadly disappeared over the years. We have seen a bit of a comeback with COVID and funding trickling through for various regional business support programmes. But generally they are for people that have at least started their business. So I think if you are right at the very beginning of your journey, we're lucky to live in a time where we are overwhelmed with content online. There are some brilliant podcasts about starting a business. There are some excellent communities like Enterprise Nation, which are providing learning and actual real life connecting events and all sorts there and loads of blog posts and videos. And I mean, whichever way you consume and learn the best, there's going to be something there for you and talk to other people, go to events, talk to those that have done it. There are plenty of people that will be willing to talk to you, even if you're setting up a very similar to them in another part of the country. They're the business friends that you need not the ones that fear competition.
No. Absolutely. One thing I found out when I first started my business. So funny, you saying that is I thought I had competition, but there is no such thing as competition at all because people like us for the way we do things, the way we put ourselves across, the way we relate to people and we could be in the same town. You and I and people will find us in different ways and will appeal to them in different ways.
Absolutely.
Since then, I've just like yourself. I've really enjoyed collaboration as well. It's been good for both sides of the business, isn't it?
Yeah. I mean, you can have two marketing agencies in the same town that have a very different offering in the works of people. They've got different values, different priorities, different skill sets. There will be crossover, of course, but yes, everyone just like humans, are unique.
So would you have some top tips that you could suggest to people who are considering going from freelance and taking that leap over to becoming a you're actually a registered company?
Yes.
You are a registered company as well. Do you have to be a registered company to do this?
There were different things so you could have a partnership. You could set it up as a social enterprise. It could be limited. Like me, there are various options you need to do your research and work out what's right for you. If funding is going to be something you need, then consider that at the start, because sometimes there's more funding for things like social enterprises that are giving back to the community. And if you can do it in that way, then you might have more opportunity. It is kind of sad that being a woman, a female business owner is considered a bit of a minority. But actually, sometimes that is. And I've had things that have come my way just because I'm a woman running a business. So yeah, you just got to look out there and see what's about
So what are your top tips for people thinking of moving from a freelance sole trader to becoming an agency in marketing?
Okay. How long did you want? So let's see. I think preparation. Absolutely. So decide what you want your setup to be and how you see that going forward and putting things in place to do that absolutely. Embrace branding. Think about whether you want part of your own name and your company name, whether it's going to be something completely different. It took me quite a long time to find my name, but the company name is something now that's recognised and people say it's really cool. So it's worth spending the time and looking at what's available, because now, obviously we're the same many social profiles that you've got to see what's available on the domain and also in social profiles as well. Handles. I'd also say, consider who your target market you can't be everything to everyone, and I haven't even done it fully yet. I'd say I still work to do on that, but just know who you want to be working with and who you're going after and why you're in business. That leads me to the point of purpose. It's become a bit of a buzzword, but I think if you can clearly communicate why your company exists while you're in business and why you're doing what you do, that storytelling is really valuable for people, and it helps them resonate with you as a business and a business owner.
So where can people find more about you? And are you open to mentoring?
I love it funny to say that because actually, I do offer mentoring through the Chartered Institute of Marketing. I do mentor some marketeers now and then, and I wouldn't offer business mentoring. I don't feel like I have achieved enough or got to the stage where I would be a credible voice on that. But marketing wise, I'm always happy to try and help people out and give my time. I probably do too much for free to be honest. People can find me pretty much everywhere, so Instagram. Shake it up, creative. Twitter, shake it up creative. Damn. Twitter handles not being long enough. Facebook shake it up creative. And yes, shake it upcreativecom
and we spell Rachel R-A-C-H-A-E-L.
Yes, I am a special breed.
Dines D-I-N-E-S. Okay, well, thank you so much for coming on today and telling us your story. It's a story of growth, and there is trust built on trust. Worked on trust. Broken trust. But it's not the end of the story.
Absolutely. Yeah.
Life goes on. Thank you for being so one is with us today. And best of luck for the next year.
Thank you so much. And to you,
And I hope to see you at the next Tomicom.
Yes. Hope so.
That's all for now, guys. We'll be back very soon with another podcast.